Why should we be doing HTML?
Personally, as a hiring manager, I wouldn't hire a Web developer who only knew FrontPage or Dreamweaver, but couldn't look at the HTML to find and fix problems. But this email I received yesterday does have a point, why do we need to know HTML? If you know HTML, why do you think it's important to Web development? If you don't know HTML, why not?
Hi. With point and drop HTML-generating programs like Freeway Express for the Mac, and others for the PC, why would anyone want to work in HTML coding anymore. It sure seems equivalent to trying to create PowerPoint slides in BASIC or FORTRAN. I'm trying to understand if I'm missing something here, but the HTML/CSS programing sure seems tedious when there's a WYSISYG alternative. Thanks for your thoughts on this. Might be useful to share the answer with your readers.
Comments
Coding in HTML (as opposed to a WYSIWIG editor like Dreamweaver) only seems tedious to those who exclusively prefer WYSIWIG editors. A good HTML coder uses templates and reuses code across a site. Plus, coding by hand offers the advantage of being able to quickly correct minor display problems (like unsightly indents occuring in table cells because of the lack of a well-placed BR tag); tracking down such a problem in a WYSIWYG editor would leave a designer stuck.
But the biggest advantage of coding by hand as opposed to designing by WYSIWYG is that hand-coding produces faster loading (and faster rendering) Web pages. WYSIWYG editors are known for generating vast amounts of bloated code, often invalid code (with overlapping tags) that may even cause display problems on some platforms. And porting a Dreamweaver page to XHTML, for syndication or repurposing in other environments? Forget about it!
HTML coding is more efficient, produces a better user experience through faster loading a rendering, and offers far more flexibility than WYSIWIG coding does.
when you use a wysiwyg you loose alot of functionality that you could have with your pages. in fact, if all you are doing is making a simple html document (tables, pictures,ect.) then it really doesnt make all that much difference how you do it. jason was right, the code is more efficient and less redundant when you write the html yourself, and there are many things that the programs will overcomplicate (front page for example, likes to make everything table based, which makes for a chunky web page) and that looses some dynamics and uses not only more of your cpu’s power to develope it, but also takes alot longer for other computers to sort it out, and does cause errors. however, that’s not the biggest reason to learn html. the real reason to learn html is for other programming. the best, most secure, and the most astheically sound web pages are written with other scripting languages such as javascript, php, .asp, ect. and without a knowlege of html you cant use these languages to create the real, beefy web pages, and also use dynamic information, such as database interfaceing.
Dreamweaver does NOT “generate vast amounts of bloated code”. And when used with both design view and code view visible, you can hand code as much as you like, or design in WYSIWYG and observe the generated code as it gets created. This is a good way to learn the underlying HTML without losing the comfort of visual design. Gradually you find you are doing more hand coding. But the simple act of clicking at the desired place in the “design view” window, and having the cursor land in the corresponding spot in the code view, can save a lot of time just arriving at the part of the code you want to edit, especially on a big page. Bottom line, there’s no percentage in being a hand-coding purist, but it’s naive to think you can be a professional web designer without learning how to write good markup.
To avoid code bloat in the WYSIWYG editors you need to switch to code view and replace the bloated version with the streamlined equivalent. This is particularly true of Javascript for example where Dreamweaver often produces a couple of dozen lines of code where two or three lines can do the same thing. The same is true to a lesser extent of HTML and CSS where a lot of duplicate settings could be combined together to significantly reduce the size of the page in some instances.
The thing is that a thorough knowledge of HTML and CSS is required in order to be able to make these changes where the time required to make them is justified by the increased efficiency of the code. Without a good knowledge of HTML and CSS you are limited to what code your chosen editor produces for you and while this may be acceptable in 9 cases out of 10, that 10th page could probably do with some significant changes to the generated code in order to make it much faster loading and more user friendly.
An amazing question
Having a web developer who doesn’t know HTML would be like having a mechanic who could wash and wax your car, maybe replace a few parts, but who didn’t know how the car actually works. The mechanic would be of very limited value.
btw, not to suck up or anything but S. Chapman provides a great resource here on the net.
:)
The problem with HTML/CSS is that the same design can be made in several ways. An example: absolute or relative (or static) positioning. You don’t want to use absolute positioning too much. it’s hard to control these kind of things with WYSIWYG. Dreamweaver changed in the last couple years from a real WYSIWYG editor to a text editor for (x)html/css programmers. Lot’s of HTML/css terminology is being used within the software. So you need to have the knowledge anyways. This IS a good thing.
Hey Chris,
You’re not sucking up if you’re actually on the Web Design / HTML site at About and Chapman runs the JavaScript site…. But he is a great JavaScript resource.
Jenn
I am one of those folks who started out thinking I could do Web Design via Dreamweaver alone. Three years later, I am now learning XHTML, Cold Fusion, and ASP in earnest. A good analogy escapes me at the moment, but as a practical matter, I feel lost (and sort of inept) not knowing the basics of my craft.
Here, here Joe.
When someone told me about 3 years ago that I should learn php, I wish I had listened. Not having a good background, I explained to him that I only wanted to design websites… (doh).
I can’t tell you the headache (and copious amount of fun) I am now having trying to develop dynamic pages.
As for learning HTML, you either know your craft or you don’t… you’re either serious or your not. You can’t be a little bit pregnant
I use Dreamweaver, but mostly as an assistant. It tells me the correct formatting for xhtml and css when I forget it, but I can’t imaging how it could write a web page for me from scratch. I have not upgraded to 8 yet, but I doubt that my work flow will change when I do. I create my pages with pure css. I hand code my css page, and then insert the divs by hand into the pages with split code/design view (which is a life saver).
I can’t tell you the nightmare I was in before I learned coding. I would fight with my wysiwyg editor for hours to get it to do what I wanted, and many times still couldn’t fix certain things.
Now I look to the code and think about those battles. I fix it in minutes instead of hours.
Well, I’ve tried 3 times to switch from Homesite+ (the “+” is for when I do ColdFusion) to Dreamweaver. I have never made the change yet.
Coding programs get a bad name cause people relate it to something like Notepad. Homesite is just about the best computer program of any type that I have ever used. It is a full Web development package, but just not WYSIWIG.
It is a pity neither Macromedia or Adobe decided to extend its life. Obviously they are trying to force us into Dreamweaver. But, if you do like a coding environment, I strongly suggest Homesite - it is MUCH more than just a place to type in code.
I started designing sites 10 years ago by learning to write HTML code from a free online class online at “Heartland University,” which was a Geocities site. After a while, I switched to FP2000 & now am working with Dreamweaver 8 — what a difference!That being said, the analogy of the mechanic is SO right-on. My husband always says you should understand how the gear shifting works & what it is doing when you drive a manual transmission car. I say it’s the same concerning web design: you should know the code behind what you’re doing, understand it, and be able to write it well.That’s the kind of thinking that has me teaching my 11 and 9 year old children how to write code. They’ve even created their own web page about Legos — with no help from mom! Sure, they could have done it much easier in Nvu, which I have for them as a starter WYSIWYG program — for later — but they need to know what they’re doing with code first.You gotta know the ABCs before you can write and read…
Does there have to be a right or wrong?
I use both, depending on the project. There are some WYSIWYG editors which have useful functions to help make tasks quick and easy. Of course, it can be frustrating to have a program “bloat” your code with comments and extras, but you can always choose not to use that function.
Then there is the sense of accomplishment when you’ve successfully coded your project. It seems to feel better when you’ve built it with your own two hands, per say.
I’ll admit up front that I’ve never used the big boys, Front Page or Dreamweaver. I’ve used 3 different editors and the one that I’ve used the most is my CoffeeCup editor. I’ve designed a page once…once…in WYSIWYG and when I opened it to fine tune the code, I nearly fell off my chair. The amount of code that was in there that I had to clean and rewrite was surprising. Since I did that page, I have never used another visual editor and have coded everything by hand.
As everyone else has mentioned, the pages are smaller and have faster load times. You have html/css script libraries that you can plug in the code when and where you need it, so you don’t have to retype it each and every time. There is no question as to the benefits of hand coding over the lazy designer’s visual editor. What happens when something corrupts the script of the page they developed on the visual editor? They find one of us hand coders to fix it.
Here is my 2 cents.
I teach web design and HTML at a local Community College. We teach hand coding using note pad to start, then move on to FrontPage and then Dreamweaver. When my students whine, first I pass out cheese and crackers, then I explain that being able to read HTML will save time when they are stumped about why it doesn’t look like they think it should.
when we teach math, they do it by hand, with a pencel before they use a calculator - Well, Duh!
Darwin..
We have many design projects going on at one time and use FrontPage for speed and repeated page set-up. Many of our clients want to “run” their site but not be totally involved. So FrontPage is their life saver.
However I would not hire anyone who could not write and edit html and intergrate CSS, other dynamic scripting, etc. Just a little knowledge is all it takes to design/write in FrontPage without the bloat.
And the fact we host web sites shows us
there is a very large number of people, many professional companies, using FrontPage as their tool of choice.
Not knowing html while working in something like dreamweaver would be ridiculous. At least learn the basics. I’ve found that HTML is actually very simple, when you can really understand it. It is also alot easier to fix minor problems. It’s like chris said “Having a web developer who doesn’t know HTML would be like having a mechanic who could wash and wax your car, maybe replace a few parts, but who didn’t know how the car actually works. The mechanic would be of very limited value.”
It’s obvious bla bla bla. Bla bla mechanic analogy bla bla. Bla bla MUST know how to code, even if using Dreamweaver etc bla bla…
If terrorists kidnap your mother, and FORCE you to build a website using a WYSIWYG editor, Dreamweaver IS acceptable… (except for, oh, that nasty javascript)
But if they demand you use FrontPage, well… one CANNOT negotiate with terrorists…
HTML is dead! This topic is moot. If you don’t XML you’ll be out of a job in two years.
I can understand the point that some might make about the lack of needing to learn HTML.
However. If you are a serious (as opposed to casual) developer of Web content I strongly suggest that you take the time needed to become proficient with HTML. A solid understanding of this core Web programming language is an essential assest to a web developer.
I learned and used programming languages like RPG, Access, SQL, Visual Basic through out my career. I started to learn HTML, XHTML, CSS, Java Scripting, etc 5 months ago. Sure, I have Front Page 2003, but I think if you are a programmer at heart, you would not even consider web development without knowing how it all works. It’s tough. Sometimes I think I should throw in the towel, but I keep at it, day after day, learning incredible tips, tricks, styles, good practices, and I know when I finally put a site together, I will know exactly how and why my code performs like it does.
Sharon
I agree. But I use Dreamweaver and GoLive to get the page roughed in — it goes faster, and for complex pages, it means I can find the piece of code that needs modifying or changing quickly.
“When you eat your smarties do you eat the red ones last?”
There is a REASON why every WYSIWYG has a “code view tab”. Without that option you would lose out on functionality. How could you insert JAVASCRIPT functions, like custom dynamic calendars, clocks, forms, bells and whistles, and many other components if you don’t know HTML. Dreamweaver is useful and is probably one of the best WYSIWYG editors out there that does save time and does not produce bloated code like the older versions of FrontPage. But the fact is, a true Web Developer is like a surgeon and must sometimes perform delicate operations to complex systems. If someone just wants a basic flyer/brochure type of website, then go with the WYSIWYG editor and get your secretary to do it. However, if a company is serious about there web site and needs to hire a Web Developer, that individual MUST be an HTML hard coder. Can a WYSIWYG insert e-commerce, paypal, XML data islands SMIL and other technologies that need to be individually configured? NOPE! Everybody seems to claim to be a web developer. Test them with notepad. “When you eat your smarties do you eat the red ones last?”
I have used Frontpage and Dreamweaver to create sites but I have always needed to tweak the code for various reasons: clean up tags, move things around or force something to happen that hasn’t happened by using the program. I’m not an expert, I’m self-taught and in 1997 I began writing my own html code for my first website. I find editors quick and easy to use and really haven’t the time to sit writing the code from scratch any more especially with all the great script funtcions available, but I’m very glad I learned to write the code originally. It’s saved me a lot of hair pulling and nail biting over the years.
I always do my pages within Dreamweaver or any other fun and easy-operated web editor. But I found myself knowing less than other on my own pages. I am starting since 6 months ago to work on webpages, but I am sure it will be an easy way to adapt to any web programming language when the code is on my fingers.
My beef with WYSIWYG is the same accross the board, with the exception of Dreamweaver. They all don’t allow you the freedom of tweaking anything, whether it be tables or ’s. I sometimes have to adjust/debug my pages pixel by pixel. It’s also easier, for me at least, to change things like valign or table height percentages and the like through HTML.
Dreamweaver, on the other hand, allows all of this in the split design mode, which is what I use most often.
Also, about 60 percent of the time I’m coding stuff that won’t even show up in the WYSIWYG area of Dreamweaver, but when I view in IE, it’s there where I want it to be.
HTML is not an option, it is a necessity for ANY serious web designer. If you’re not serious about knowing HTML, you’re not serious about Web design.
I am one of those FORTRAN / BASIC / C programmers and I still use them. I have found in the last 30 years of programming that if you don’t know the basics, you’re doomed to failure.
XML based web sites require HTML and CSS to make them work. Therefore, HTML is not on the way out. It’s just depreciated a little.
By the way, I’m old school, I don’t use any WYSIWYG, they are all too inefficent.
Everything that I read about knowing HTML hits it right on the head. I believe it is the best to be able to look under the hood, so to speak, as someone mentioned. I liken it to using a camera that you just point and shoot and when you can’t quite get that fog to show up on film just as you saw that beautiful sunrise mixed with it, it is mighty irratating then a totally manual camera. HTML is like a totally manual camera where you can get exactly what you want on your page and you are limited with the others.
I lied on my job application and said I can hand-code HTML and CSS. The truth is I have always used Dreamweaver since 1997. No coding whatsoever, always on the design view. I had a very frustrating time with it until Dreamweaver 8. It is almost flawless and I don’t find it limiting at all. However, back to my problem: I lied and said I could write HTML, not such a huge problem, except that I have a job interview tomorrow and I really want the job but I have just picked up an HTML book and I am starting from hello world
I really should have done this a long time ago.
Can someone please comment on this? Should students in high school webmastering classes learn HTML or WYSIWIG programs? I teach webmastering and focus on HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and PHP/MySQL, however my district is wanting Dreamweaver taught instead of the code because other teachers in the district who know little about their content area like, but it seems to me, that’s not real web design, its just a crutch. Its like teaching math students how to use a calculator instead of teaching them to add and subtract. So, should I conform and just teach Dreamweaver or make the argument that coding should be taught and teachers who don’t know it should learn it or teach something else? Any suggestions?